Unknown Speaker 0:01
This is what I’ve learned on women, a podcast for creatives, business owners and quiet rebels. I’m your host, Claire Coupland, certified coach specializing in helping women find their inner rebel and live life on their terms. Each episode will share stories and empower and support each other. This is Episode Five.

Unknown Speaker 0:22
In today’s episode, I have the lovely Anna Dunleavy. She is a fantastic coach, and wonderful wedding photographer. Seriously go look at her photography. It’s beautiful. We have been friends for a long time now I’d say three or four years. We met during co working together. And yeah, just really hit it off. So I’m really excited for you to hear this episode. It’s a really nice chat. And I hope you enjoy it. Hi, Anna. Welcome. Hi, Claire, thanks so much for having me. Oh, it’s great to have you. It’s really nice that you could join me today.

Speaker 1 1:04
Yeah, I’m really, really pleased to kind of have a chat with you. Obviously. Having known you for quite a few years, I think it’d be an interesting conversation.

Speaker 2 1:13
Yeah, definitely. He’s very excited. So just tell everyone a little bit about what you do.

Speaker 1 1:21
Yeah, so I always struggle with that question, actually. So I’m a photographer and a coach. And so I suppose I’ll kind of rewind a little bit. I started my photography business about 10 years ago, and I predominantly now just focus on wedding photography. And that is still my kind of main source of income. And I’m also a trained coach and predominantly work with women who run creative businesses. So that’s kind of my little niche, I guess, for the time being anyway.

Speaker 2 2:01
And he did the self belief qualification with SAS how many?

Speaker 1 2:07
I have Yeah, yeah, that was. So that was kind of like a second qualification that I did in coaching that really, like as soon as she announced it, I knew that I wanted to do it. self doubt, as a topic is really, yeah, I find it really interesting. And I knew that that was something that I really wanted to kind of delve deeper into. And so yeah, completed that kind of six month qualification, and just Yeah, learned, learned a lot. And I think it helped me to refine a little bit about, you know, in terms of my no only approach, but actually the kind of the, yeah, the type of coaching I want to be doing as well. So, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:51
No, yeah, I love her message. It’s great. It’s really interesting.

Speaker 1 2:55
Yeah, yeah, I really just resonated with it on a personal level more than anything, I think. And also, I think, noticing how much self doubt plays a part in, you know, the women I do tend to work with the kind of it tends to sneak in here and there. And it’s not often it’s not very clear, often that that’s what it is. Sometimes, you know, perhaps we can be procrastinating. But actually, there might not always, but there might be sometimes a reason why that is. And so yeah, it’s a fascinating topic that, in a way, actually, I wish that I had studied psychology at university, it makes me want to go back to uni, because there are just so many different topics within that, that, you know, I’d really love to kind of delve deeper into that, obviously, I’m a little bit older now have some responsibilities. It’s not quite as simple as going to university as it was when I was younger, so So yeah, but it’s, yeah, it’s just something that I continue to kind of want to learn about. So yeah.

Speaker 2 4:09
It’s a really interesting topic. And I see it shows up in my own life around that kind of procrastination. And, yeah, that’s why I’m really fascinated with them and love the work that you kind of do. Thank you. Okay, so should we start with questions? Yeah, let’s go. Okay, so what’s the best advice you’ve ever been given?

Speaker 1 4:30
So actually, I struggled with that question a tiny bit, because I couldn’t think of like one piece of advice that I’ve been given or, you know, I couldn’t think of this like one profound moment where someone shared something I was like, Yes, this is something I need to carry forward. But actually, what I what came to mind when I was thinking about that question is not necessarily advice that I was given, specifically, but something that I saw or modeled to me. And really, it centers around kind of taking joy in kind of so small and simple things in life. And I really see that in my mum who doesn’t necessarily want for much for herself. She’s quite, she doesn’t ever. I never hear her talk about things she doesn’t have, you know, she talks about with, you know, great joy about the things she does have like her garden, and, you know, buying a plant that she really loves. And it’s the small and simple things that. Yeah, I think we perhaps need to notice more. And actually, so having that model to me has been, like I say, not necessarily advice, but actually something that I’m only now like when I’m, you know, as I kind of grow older, I think I’m appreciating more and more.

Speaker 2 6:00
Hmm, that’s really lovely. Because it is another thing today, that’s that kind of the small things in life, we do take them for granted sometimes, and I know that you’d like gardening, you. And you enjoy doing that. And I do with gardening, probably not as much in the moment as I have been in the past. But those small things make a big difference, right?

Speaker 1 6:21
Yeah. And well, that’s the interesting thing. And I think, had you asked me that question, maybe maybe even three years ago, perhaps my answer would have been completely different. And I think there was a part of me when I was younger, that was perhaps curious about not necessarily wanting more or bigger things, you know, I perhaps didn’t quite understand it. And actually, the older I get, the more I realized that actually it is the kind of small life moments and yeah, just the things that we you know, have around us day to day that are kind of more important than then sometimes the things we strive for culturally so. So yeah. And yes, I have now got an allotment. And I was never interested in gardening at all until about three years ago, when we took on an allotment, we’re very lucky to kind of have it offered to us in the first lockdown in 20. And yeah, I’ve just it’s been such an amazing project to get into, especially during that tough time. And we had no outdoor space at the time. So it was a real. Yeah, we, you know, we were so excited to see the first shoots of plants that we’d sown and, and I guess the egg goes back to that kind of join the small things, it was really joyful. And it really brought joy to us at a time where perhaps, there wasn’t much of it in the kind of outside world. So yeah, we really focused in on that kind of small, small things, I guess. And yeah, and that brought a lot to us. I think they definitely carried me through the difficult months.

Speaker 2 8:13
Nice. Okay, so how would you say you’ve changed over the last 10 years?

Speaker 1 8:24
Good question. I think more than anything, I think it’s probably the kind of an I don’t want to kind of sound too cliche, but I think is the kind of journey I’ve been on in terms of personal growth, and self awareness that has grown over the years. You know, through working with coaches through just perhaps reading the things that I’ve read through working with a therapist, I think there have been certain things that have happened in my life that I’ve been able to kind of work through and understand better and I think so I think that personal growth is probably the one thing that is the biggest change, I would say, in those 10 years. And, you know, motherhood that’s definitely comes into it. You know, that’s definitely taught me many lessons as well. So I think, yeah, all of those things combined. I think it’s, it’s, I’ve grown, I think, as a person through through that kind of self inquiry, I guess, and, and actually, through the kind of coaching qualifications as well, I think one of the things that, you know, SAS Petherick, as an example, does through her courses, you kind of work through your own self doubt, and it’s very much about self reflection that you then take to kind of into your coaching practice with clients. And so I think that in itself has been really massively helpful. And so I guess that investment in my learning has kind of contributed to that personal growth as well. But as I say that, you know, it’s it’s not like I’ve ticked all the boxes now and arrived at some at some, you know, magical place, it’s, it’s very much a, you know, lifelong journey of just acceptance and learning and yeah, but I’ve kind of opened that door over the last 10 years, I guess. And so, yeah, I keep moving forward in that direction.

Speaker 2 10:34
That’s really lovely to hear. I think it’s one of those things that, as humans, as we get older, we do tend to do that I think a lot of people I talk to, and whether that’s just because they’re the kind of people I navigate towards, no, but a lot of people go on that journey. And it’s really interesting when to go on delving deep and a lot of reflection that you say, and it can be really powerful.

Speaker 1 10:56
It can be and I guess, actually, you’re right there, perhaps it is the people that we necessarily, perhaps are drawn to who are also on that same journey, because maybe instinctively, you know, we recognize that in them. And, and yeah, and actually, as a result, I’ve really kind of, I love the connections that I’ve made because of that, because I’ve been able to be open about my own experiences, and have those kinds of more deep conversations. And I think that’s probably why I’m drawn to coaching as a, you know, as a thing as well, because I don’t particularly like the kind of chit chat of, you know, it’s have nice weather today, I really enjoy deep kind of meaningful conversations. And so I guess, yeah, I guess I’m attracted to that. By nature, so.

Speaker 2 11:57
Okay, so who is a woman that has inspired you and why?

Speaker 1 12:00
So I had a couple of couple of examples. But I’m gonna go with someone who I actually worked with, but also became friends with over the last few years. And it’s Caroline of the catch Han, as she makes these kind of beautiful biscuits, whether with kind of really lovely supportive messages. And particularly over lockdown, I think, obviously, you know, that business was, I think, a real highlight and some people’s days, perhaps to receive, you know, a nice little package with really lovely and thoughtful kind of goodies in there. But she’s actually raising money for a charity and learning to ride a unicycle. And watching her stories and watching her perseverance doing that I find so inspiring, because that’s, that’s something that, you know, we would normally set out to do. And so yeah, I find that really, really inspiring that perseverance of like, literally having to get back up because she’s fallen off, you know, and I think if that’s not a metaphor for life, I don’t know what it is, you know, it’s, it’s that continued. Yeah, just striving to to achieve her goals. And obviously, the fact that ultimately, that goal is to raise money for a charity that she cares. cares about. I think it’s um, yeah, just, yeah, I admire so much.

Speaker 2 13:51
You’re wow, I didn’t know that. I do follow her as well. Sorry. I’m going to have to no good find.

Speaker 1 13:57
Yeah, I just I’ve just loved watching her stories of like, actually, I’ve had a really tough day, you know, I didn’t. Nothing is you know, it’s not clicking into place just yet. But she keeps going. And actually, as I say that, it reminds me of someone else who I believe has her name’s Sarah King, I think of kind of a company who used to be called we are radical, I think. It’s now rebranded as OB EU, I think they’re, she’s Yeah, she’s kind of a local businesswoman. And she set out to become an endurance athlete last year. And so I followed her journey again, just through watching kind of what she was up to on Instagram of training to do an endurance event of climbing a mountain and the climb was equal to climbing Mount Everest. So they would go up and then come back down and do that multiple times and Have you ever achieved the distance? And, again, it’s just that pure determination to achieve that goal and ultimately just showing up, you know, showing up constantly. And so I found Yeah, I found those stories really, really inspiring. Yeah, perhaps, perhaps something to revisit maybe later in life when I want to set myself a big lofty goal.

Speaker 2 15:27
Wow, gosh, that’s amazing. I do love watching people do things extreme or interesting, you know, that kind of the unicycle and then Extreme Challenge. Oh, that must be. Yeah, fascinating to watch.

Unknown Speaker 15:41
Yeah, it is. And I think it just in a way, it’s kind of reaffirming that we, as you know, people are kind of resilient. So yeah, so it was really, really inspiring to watch that journey.

Unknown Speaker 16:00
Yeah, sounds. Okay. So do you have a favorite quote or saying?

Speaker 1 16:08
So one of the things that came to mind, and I kind of just for the majority of the questions that kind of went with what first came to mind, and I’m gonna stick with it, and it’s, you know, one foot in front of the other or one step at a time. And I think that saying, is important in kind of all walks of life, but actually, particularly when we’re feeling overwhelmed, or when we’re having a tough time. Because I think so often we’re focused on, you know, having to be a certain place further down the line. And, and that can feel really overwhelming. And when there are different kind of live pressures, lots of different things that might be kind of contributing to, you know, your circumstances at the time, I think, actually, just focusing on that one step in front of you, is sometimes it just allows you to almost regain back control, I guess, and, and yeah, not worry too much about what’s kind of in the distant future. Because I think we, again, have probably out of a tendency to kind of do that, you know, definitely. Someone who worries a lot. And, and that can, that can be overwhelming. But sometimes we do need to just scale it back back down to, you know, what’s the next step? What’s in front of us? How can we make it manageable? So yeah, one step at a time, I think is a good reminder, in all walks of life.

Speaker 2 17:43
Yeah, definitely, as a fellow worrier, I think one step at a time is a great thing to think about, I do think we often worry too much about or if I take that step, then what’s the next step, but sometimes just have to go steady and trust that the next step will become apparent, I suppose.

Speaker 1 18:00
Well, this is it. And I think sometimes, yeah, I want like clarity, like, okay, so, you know, where am I going? And what does this exactly look like? But actually, like you say, that’s not always possible, it’s not always possible to achieve that, without taking that first step as well. So actually, just one foot in front of the other, and you can see where, where that takes you. And the path often then becomes apparent as you as you go.

Speaker 2 18:28
Yeah. Okay, so in your opinion, what are some of the biggest challenges that women face today? And what can we do to overcome them?

Speaker 1 18:39
I don’t know if this is the biggest challenge. There are many I think we face on a regular basis. But one of the things that came to mind is the kind of pressure to do it all. I think both maybe culturally and societally, but also kind of the pressure we put on ourselves, to do all of the things to you know, be caring and supportive partners have parents to succeed in our careers, whether that’s, you know, working, being employed or working for yourself, and running a business to, you know, being a good and contributing citizen, and, you know, perhaps, yeah, helping in that way. So there’s just lots of different things that I think and you know, not to forget, you know, looking after our own well being, that’s obviously another thing that so it’s yeah, there’s just so many, so many things, looking at the house, you know, that kind of normal day to day chores. I think there’s just the pace of life is Yeah, I think perhaps the lock downs and COVID show Notice how kind of unsustainable it is actually, to be to be doing. Yeah, doing it all and and expecting ourselves to do it well, you know, expecting ourselves to do it all really well, and perhaps being a bit harsh on ourselves when we can’t manage. And when we do feel overwhelmed with that, I don’t know if it’s something that you can kind of relate to if it’s something that you find in your own life. That yeah, challenging?

Speaker 2 20:36
Yeah, definitely. And I think there’s a few things you said that really resonated with me, I think, you know, the pressure that we put on ourselves, you know, there was external pressure as well. But there’s a lot of pressure. And I think the lockdown things fascinating, because I think before lockdown, I was probably just, yeah, just doing it and not thinking or questionnaire. And then I think as things like going out, or meeting people or doing the sort of day to day, things that you would do, you know, popping to the shops, just to get better, no packet risk is something, those things didn’t become things, these things just work things you could do anymore. So you started to evaluate the time that you had and how you’re using it. And I certainly, you know, really struggled to go back to normal socializing and being kind of back in society. And it took me a really long time. And I’d still say that I’m not there. I’m not sure I ever will go there. And I’m fine with that. But I do think that that pressure, it’s all it’s still there. But it’s just a bit different since locked out. I don’t know. What do you think? Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:41
It’s, it’s difficult, because I think the world has kind of gone back to the way it used to be. And so we’ve always kind of forgotten the lessons we’ve learned already. You know, we’re only three years in, and we’ve kind of almost already forgotten those lessons. Of really, yeah, really kind of being intentional with our time, being intentional with our time. And I think, yeah, I think I know that I perhaps slipped back into that old way of being of wanting to do it all and expecting myself to be able to manage it all. And I think when I think about that, it’s think it’s, it’s not sustainable. You know, we’ve both you and I have talked about burnout, and how much that’s present in our lives. At the moment. It’s, you know, it’s a topic that’s constantly talked about why? Because we’re all striving to be to be able to do all of these things. And often, without necessarily, they’re the community around us that perhaps we would have had in the past. So yes, I think one of the things that I find helpful when thinking about it is, you know, what kind of season of life are you in right now? What’s, where are we turning the dials up? You know, is your work life more important right now? And and what impact does that have on other aspects of your life? Or is perhaps family time? A priority right now? And how can you make changes and shifts to reflect that in other areas of life? It’s like, we probably we can have it all been out at the same time as a kind of a saying that perhaps

Unknown Speaker 23:38
would be useful here. It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s we can’t be giving 100% to everything. At the same time, so I think it’s just being conscious of how we approach it all. So that we don’t end up until this kind of burnout stage that take some time to recover from actually.

Speaker 2 24:01
Yes, yeah. I like that, you know, what season of life and we’ve talked about that before as well, haven’t we, but that kind of choosing where to put your focus and be more intentional with it, I think really is a powerful thing. And it can lead you to make better decisions that suit you more, but also give you the opportunity to go back to the kind of the small things and enjoying life, you know, it gives you that opportunity to appreciate those things if you’re not doing everything or try and cook because you can’t do everything. 100% Like you said, but if you’re not trying to do everything, 100% then it does give you the opportunity to notice the smaller things and to enjoy yourself more.

Speaker 1 24:38
Yeah. And when the caveat that it’s hard to do that. It’s hard to to, you know, like the household chores, you know, they still need doing and so it’s it’s it’s such a fine balance, isn’t it of Yeah, I of choosing where you put your attention, but also sometimes knowing that that’s where your attention needs to go. And I think I’m quite an impatient person by nature. And so I want to do everything now. And so it’s a Yeah, it’s a constant battle. So I think I guess I just want to highlight that I haven’t got it all figured out. And that it’s, yeah, it’s definitely an ongoing challenge to kind of, to. Yeah, to do the work that I enjoy doing. And, you know, perhaps continue with the studies that I want to continue with, without it becoming just too much and overwhelming and taking away from the things that are really important to me, like, you know, family life, for example. So it’s yeah, it’s a constant. Yeah. constant balancing act, I think.

Speaker 2 25:53
Absolutely. And so, I’m not so arrogant. But that’s okay. You know, it’s a work in progress.

Speaker 1 25:59
Exactly. I think this is it. I think it’s, it’s given us permission to be messy within all of that, you know, to be kind of in, in flow and movement within all of that constantly. And I guess that’s just life, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 26:17
Oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, so what advice would you give to women who are just starting their careers and would like to make an impact?

Speaker 1 26:29
I think the biggest thing for me, or the biggest thing that I found helpful, has been finding a kind of a community of like minded people, and surrounding yourself with them, because, and I’ll use my example, but obviously, not everyone is self employed, perhaps, you know, those who are listening might might be on unemployment and pursuing different careers. But using my own example, when I first set out and started my own business, I really didn’t know anyone, probably, yeah, probably no one really, who ran their own business, in a kind of creative industry. And I think that that’s very different to running your own business in, you know, if you’re a trades person, for example, or you run a company, and you have staff, it’s, you know, there are different challenges within each each of those. And I think, yeah, I think that’s one of the things that has really been helpful for me is finding people who are kind of on the same page, their experiences are similar, so they can understand and support me. And, you know, I can support them in that journey. And I suppose, you know, actually, we met at a co working space and we for, you know, kind of creative kind of women in business. And actually, it was, yeah, it’s hugely helpful to have those relationships. So that when you are struggling, you can run it past someone, you’re not relying necessarily on family or partners to fully understand your kind of your, yeah, career or, you know, work issues and circumstances. Because I feel like unless you’re actually doing it, it’s sometimes hard to grasp. What is it running? You know, what is it like running creative business as an example? So yeah, I think a community of like minded people, I think you can’t go wrong with that. And, yeah, I think it just safeguards us from kind of feeling that loneliness that can come with not having other people to talk to about the things that you are. Yeah, struggling with or going through?

Speaker 2 28:54
Absolutely, I completely agree. I think it’s wonderful if you’ve got someone that you can talk to at home, but having those people that understand what you’re actually going through that real struggle of, I need to do this, or this part of my business needs this kind of improvement. And they’re the kind of discussions or I’m struggling with this bit of my business, I’m not enjoying this bit of my business, and sometimes discussing that with someone at home can make them worry too much. Whereas you might just want to have a chat with somebody and say, oh, gosh, because we’ve talked about this before. We’ve talked about bit cybers. And I’m really struggling to do this bit or I don’t really I’m not sure about this bit, should I change this bit? And that can unnecessarily worry people who care for you. Whereas if it’s a colleague, friend, somebody you’ve met who’s got a similar business, they really get that struggle. They really understand that. Yes, I’ve been there. I know what you’re talking about. Exactly. And like you said, there’s a level of detachment in like I say that there isn’t a personal involvement in, in you as a person and your, you know, success or your growth. There’s a healthy detachment that perhaps, sometimes is needed as well and I’m so ya know, it’s been hugely, hugely kind of beneficial, and I don’t think I would be able to do what I do now without that support,

Speaker 1 30:11
I think I’m generally happy to work by myself most of the time I kind of, for the most part, enjoy it. But there is definitely an element of like, okay, I actually need that community and need a sense of just knowing that there are people that I can turn to, should I should I need to? Yeah, to get some support. So

Speaker 2 30:35
yeah, really can be very helpful. And I think that’s great advice, actually, because it’s something that same as you I didn’t know anyone when I started out in business, and I didn’t think I needed anyone, I thought it was fine on my own. And it wasn’t until I met people at the co working kind of that. I was like, okay, it can be easier. Like it can be easier.

Speaker 1 30:53
Well, exactly. This is a it’s kind of making it easier for yourself. Even just voicing what you’re going through, can be enough. Sometimes you don’t even need to necessarily hear any feedback. Just having someone there to allow you this space to kind of just process what’s happening can in itself, by itself be really kind of helpful. So yeah, if that’s Yeah, there’s definitely one kind of piece of advice that I would, yeah, give to anyone kind of just at the beginning of their kind of career journey.

Unknown Speaker 31:28
Nice. So what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learnt?

Speaker 1 31:31
I think I’m definitely going to focus on health. And I mean, I hesitate to say this, because it’s not like we were, you know, our lives were not endangered. But when I got COVID, and 2021, I did have not only did we were we quite poorly when we, when we had it, once we technically recovered, there was still a very long recovery period, and my kind of energy levels were really affected. And so I struggled with that for quite a long time. And I think that that definitely scared me a little bit. Because, again, being self employed, you know, being the only person that’s actually running the business, it meant that certain things had to take us, you know, as a setback, because I wasn’t able to juggle it all. And, you know, going back to what I said earlier, I really had to prioritize in that time to really pay attention to my energy levels. And so I think actually you Yeah, biggest lesson is to kind of really pay attention to our health and look after ourselves. And I know, that’s a quite cliched thing to say. But particularly, as a business owner, ultimately, you know, you don’t necessarily have a business if you’re not able to, if you’re not able to work. The you know, very rarely is there someone else to step in on your behalf. What I do is very, it would be difficult to replace myself in the business, if you like. And so, yeah, just being really mindful that. Yeah, as I get older as well, you know, that actually, I really need to be paying more attention to that. So it’s not an easy topic, I guess. Yeah, I feel like perhaps it’s a Yeah, feels like a cliched answer. But actually, yeah, I feel like it’s if it was true right now.

Speaker 2 33:42
No, I don’t I mean, not to disagree. But I don’t think it’s cliche. I think it’s really important, isn’t it? I think I remember you going through that. And it was really difficult. You know, you really did struggle. And it does make you think about your own mortality and your own health and everything. And it’s something that we do take for granted. We kind of if we’re well, we don’t think about the possibility. We’re going to report that we just think great. Another day, here we go.

Speaker 1 34:06
Yeah, yeah. And it also makes me think, you know, what are the steps you’re putting in place? The practical stuff, not just in terms of your own health, but should you not be very well, for a little while and, you know, should you not be able to work actually. Yeah, how does that how does that affect your income? What what, you know, what’s the knock on effect? Does that mean you’re looking at potentially taking out some income protection insurance or, you know, there are things to consider? And it’s, I guess, it’s not something that I really thought about that much. And I guess, I guess they’re locked down and COVID probably brought this on to you Not because of COVID per se, but because of the my inability to work as a wedding photographer, obviously, I wasn’t able to actually physically work. And so all of a sudden it was like, Oh, okay. Like there is, you know, hardly any money coming in, and what does that look like for us as a family? But I feel like yeah, the two are interlinked for me, because should I be unable to work? What what does that mean? What does that mean to, to us as a family to my business? And what are the steps I can put in place to safeguard? Yeah, both myself and the business from you know, should that happen? Touchwood.

Speaker 2 35:47
It also makes me think about the thing you were saying around having it all and that kind of doing things because you have to, and I think if you’re ill, as a self employed business owner, you kind of might push yourself a little bit further than you would, if you were maybe employed, because you’re the sole income for your, for your business, you’re the sole person, especially things like weddings, you want to be there as much as you possibly can. And that might lead you to do that kind of trying to have it all.

Speaker 1 36:16
Yeah, we don’t have the luxury of calling in sick. And we also don’t have the luxury of, you know, a company kind of sick pay or, you know, whatever schemes they might have in place. Of course, not every company has, but some are better than others in terms of looking after you if you are, you know, poorly and on unable to work. So, yeah, it’s it’s a really kind of, yeah, there’s so many layers to this conversation, so many layers to this topic, but I definitely went back to work much sooner than I was actually ready to. In terms of those energy levels in my recovery, I think I probably by having to go back to work. When I was technically recovered. I ended up prolonging that. That recovery by quite a bit, I think. Had I, you know, taken two or three weeks to fully rest, perhaps the story would have been different, but I guess we’ll never find out.

Speaker 2 37:23
Yeah, and certainly done it myself. So I can totally understand why people and why that happens. It’s just, yeah, he just want to be there. So it’s hard.

Speaker 1 37:35
Yeah, yeah. You want to be there and kind of have to be there from a financial point of view to you know, that’s, that’s be direct with that, you know, I was a Bofur. Not a want not to kind of let people down and at financial need.

Speaker 2 37:55
Absolutely. Yeah. So who’s your favorite female character in a book, film or TV series?

Speaker 1 38:02
So that was really tricky actually, to come up with. I don’t say for the most part, at least in recent years, I’ve been reading a lot of nonfiction. So I feel like there’s no like book characters that I could kind of some brilliant book character that I could come up with. But the person that came to mind was Lorelai Gilmore from Gilmore Girls. One of my favorite shows, that is just an easy watch that I really have just enjoyed watching over the years. Every couple of years, I kind of go back through the whole series and just rewatch and yeah, I loved it in that, but the reason why I say Lorelai Gilmore is because I think it you know, not to say that there wasn’t a lot of just humaneness and messiness and her character, but I admired her perseverance to kind of live life on her own terms. And right from the beginning of the series, you know, she doesn’t lean into the kind of cultural norms of you know, okay, you’re pregnant. So therefore you should get married and you know, you should lead a life that we think you should lead so that’s obviously kind of a theme that’s you know, present throughout the show. No spoilers hopefully. You know, if someone’s not watched it, I will if you’ve not watched it why but yeah, it’s a character that I you know, just yet admired for that kind of really standing up for what she believed in ultimately, and really choosing to live a life that perhaps raised some eyebrows and but ultimately was was the life she wanted to live and lead so so yeah, so that but I always say current, there was a second character and more for One character that not that I identify with that person at all, necessarily but Moira from shits Creek came to mind. Because I was thinking that I’m quite, quite reserved when it comes to my fashion choices. And generally, perhaps as a person, and I just loved how just outrageous her outfits were, and she just did not cash she, you know, in the small town, she just wears these big outfits, these like crazy things, and she just pulls it off and has absolutely no. Yeah, no regard for what other people might think. And so I would like to lean into that energy a little bit more, I think.

Speaker 2 41:00
Oh my gosh, two amazing women like, what great characters I love the most like, Ah, wow. Yeah, I love Lorelai grandma, she’s so nice. She just got so much tenacity. And she’s really she Yeah, she’s really like, this is how I’m doing it. And I’m not gonna be influenced by the people around me. I care about them. And I’m interested in what they think. But this is how I’m doing it. And I’m staying in this lane. And that is yeah, really inspiring. And yeah, Maya is just amazing. Just yet. brilliant choice. And so my probably quite I mean, definitely reserve compared to Moira. So it is nice to think about how little she worries about other people’s opinions.

Speaker 1 41:42
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess that’s what you know, fictional characters can do for us in a way is that give us that kind of inspiration or permission, I guess, to kind of maybe, yeah, if if we, if we are drawn to something, maybe there’s a reason why my way are so.

Speaker 2 42:05
Yeah, I love them amazing choices. Okay, so the final question, what have you learned from women? I’m not sure if that’s

Speaker 1 42:15
a direct answer to your question. But I think what I’ve learned over the years is that we’re kind of stronger together, and that we need community. And I suppose it kind of goes back to a little bit to what I said earlier. You know, we, we need each other, we need each other to lean on. And yeah, when we are really there for one another and supportive of one another. That’s kind of where, yeah, that’s the real kind of beauty and life, I think, when we’re able to do that for each other. So yeah, I think, yeah, we’re stronger together. I think that’s probably the message I’m trying to convey.

Speaker 2 43:04
Yeah, that’s a really lovely message. And I completely agree, I think, as a young girl, stroke, teenager stroke, probably 20 year old, I was wrongly under the impression that women were competition, I think there’s a whole societal narrative around, you know, your women or competition, you know, you’re only as good as X, Y, Zed, etc. And I hadn’t really thought about until I got older, how damaging that is for friendships, and how damaging that is for, you know, just life in general, if you’re thinking about, well, you know, I’m only as good as the next person. And they’re better than me. And this comparison that comes into life because of the way that, you know, there’s this narrative around. Not necessarily, I mean, it’s quite a strong way to say it competition, but that is how certainly I was brought up to believe. So turning that narrative around, and being we’re stronger together is so empowering.

Speaker 1 43:58
Yeah, I can totally relate to that. When I think back to my school years, it was really apparent how it’s hard. Is it cultural? Is it you know, societal, what, what are the influences? I’m not Tet? totally sure. Perhaps it’s actually on reflection, perhaps it’s more of a belonging, thing belonging theme that actually, you know, girls would create situations where we had to pick sides and you know, and I think ultimately, that doesn’t achieve anything, it just isolates people, it creates that comparison. And it you know, there was enough of that in our lives already. And you know, we’re probably do that to ourselves. Enough already as it is. So actually, yeah, embracing that. kind of more of a community? And yeah, just just wanting to support each other and yeah, empower each other I guess is, you know, that’s that’s kind of that’s what I’m trying to focus on now, rather than the perhaps more childish kind of behavior patterns from, like I say, perhaps, you know, high school and school school years. So yeah, it’s, it’s something that I’m, yeah, just trying to embrace more of my life, I think.

Unknown Speaker 45:36
Nice. Very nice. So I can people find you online.

Speaker 1 45:44
Good question

Unknown Speaker 45:45
So on Instagram, I’m at Anna Dunleavy. And that’s d u, n leav. Y. And my website is also AnnaDunleavy.com, or there that needs a little bit of a refresh.

Unknown Speaker 46:02
I also recently started a sub stack. And that’s also under my name. And the sub stack is called Ebb and Flow. And the bit I always forget about is that I also have a podcast, and that’s called Business in Bloom,

Speaker 1 46:17
where I also have conversations with other women who run their own businesses. So yeah, all of those places, but predominantly, probably Instagram currently.

Speaker 2 46:28
Hmm. Lovely. I will link to all of those in the notes so people can find you. Thank you so much for joining me.

Unknown Speaker 46:35
Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 46:37
It’s really nice to kind of talk to you about different subjects.

Speaker 1 46:40
Yeah, thank you. Definitely some thought provoking questions that I had to had to take a minute to kind of think about. So yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 46:49
You can find me over on Instagram at grow underscore with underscore Moxie, where you can email me at hello at Claire Coupland, docker.uk and also on substack. Under moments of Moxie. The podcast will also be hosted over there as well as in all of the other places that you can find it. Thank you for listening. And if you like this, I subscribe. Didn’t get the next episode. Straighten your feet. I hope you’re having a really wonderful week. I’ll speak to you soon.